Craps Buy Bets Payout

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This is one of the best bets craps players can make, with payout odds of 1 to 1. The don't pass bet has a slightly lower house edge (1.36%) but given 7 has a statistically higher chance of landing than 2 or 3, the odds of this bet winning are lower. The odds of rolling a 7 are 6 out of 36 possible combinations, or 1 in 6.
This is one of the more complicated and interesting bets in craps. First I will start off talking about the buy bet. Basically, players can make a bet on the established point numbers at any time. Players will win if the shooter rolls the point number before the seven. The payouts would be excellent because it would be paid by true odds.

steve5k

Craps Buy Bets Payouts

I was looking through the Wizard's website on the craps odds and payouts, and need some clarification on the buy bet section. I see the 2 following lines for buying the 6 or 8:
Buy 6 & 8 pays 23 to 21, when the commission is always paid.
Buy 6 & 8 pays 23 to 20, when the commission is paid on a win only.
When the commission is always paid, isn't that why the bet =$21? $20 for the bet + $1 up front for the commission?
If so, shouldn't the win amount be $24? Shouldn't it pay 24 to 21?
I'm wondering because that's what I think when I see the 2nd line, and it seems to have a $20 bet with a $23 payout ($24 for the actual payout less the $1 commission charged when the bet wins).
What am I missing?
Edit: the same applies for the 5 & 9, and 4 & 10 buy bets

The amount of money you place doesn’t figure into the odds, but it does figure into the Craps payout. Craps Payout: For a 1/1 payout, if you bet $5 and win, you only get $5 on top of the $5 you bet. House Edge%: This percentage shows how much of a percent over the 50% (even odds) that the House holds. Basically this% represents the. In Vegas, buy the 4 and 10 if your bet is $20 or more. If less then $20, then place bet. In my experience, if you throw down $20 or more on each, the 4 and 10, they put a Buy marker on your chips automatically because it's a better payout for you. For 5, 6, 8, and 9, always do a place bet, never a buy bet. Commission is paid if you win. Some casinos let players make 'Put' bets at craps. These wagers look like Pass or Come bets, with 'flat' parts returning 1-to-1 and 'odds' components paying in inverse proportion to chances of winning. However, the flat money doesn't get to a number via the come-out roll with the odds added after the point is established.

wudged

With vig up front, it costs you $21 when you lose. When you win, you initially put in $21 and you are returned $24 (win) + $20 (bet) = $44, for a net of $23.

Ahigh

I'm only familiar with Las Vegas, but for what it's worth, the only thing you ever buy around here is a four or a ten. I've (very rarely) seen buys on the 5 and 9, but the other buy bets (except for 'SHOOT TO WIN' aka 'bubble craps') are very rare here.

FleaStiff

I would agree that quote is the practical, real-world advice. Don't Buy anything but the 4 0R 10, if possible avoid paying a commission up front, but remember its likely to be charged when you win.
For the math involved, sure go to a craps machine, but at a real world table with live dealers, they will probably tell you its better for you to Buy the 4 and 10 and to PLACE the 5 and 9 as well as the 6 and 8. If they don't tell you this its probably a fast table.

steve5k

OK, so is the website wrong, then? Similar payouts are listed for the 4 and 10, so lets look at those...
It says buying the 4 and 10, when vig has to be paid up front, will pay 39 to 21;
and when buying the 4 & 10 with vig paid only when it wins is 39 to 20.
I believe the 2nd one, pays 39 to 20 when vig paid on a win, but the first line looks to me like it should be 40 to 21? $1 vig paid up front then 2:1 when it wins. Should it be 40:21 or 39:21?
P.S. Believe me, the only numbers I would buy are the 4 and 10, but I'm just looking at the math on a chart from a website, and it just looks like something is off. It's about 2/3 of the way down on: wizardofodds.com/games/craps/

Doc

For a $20 buy bet on the 4/10, vig paid only on the win, you are only putting $20 at risk. Therefore, the payout must be “to 20”. If it wins, you are paid $40 less the $1 vig, or “39 to 20.”
If the vig is paid up front, you have put $21 at risk, so the payout is “to 21.” If it wins, you are paid $40 on the $20 you had on the felt, but you must deduct that $1 you paid up front. You won a net $39 (just as in the paragraph above), but in this case it was “39 to 21.”
Ratio of the net win on a win to the total loss if you had lost.

$10 buy on 4. $1 up front (so bet is $11). Payout is $20. Since they're keeping the bet up, they charge you another $1 (pay up front for next roll).

mustangsally

If the vig is paid up front, you have put $21 at risk, so the payout is “to 21.” If it wins, you are paid $40 on the $20 you had on the felt, but you must deduct that $1 you paid up front.

This only applies if one is trying to calculate the ev or house edge of the bet
The Wizard's table says
PAYS

Quote: Doc

Ratio of the net win on a win to the total loss if you had lost.

sure, only useful if computing the ev or the house edge
But for PAYS, I also agree the bet PAYS 40 to 21.
In my opinion here, JB and / or the Wizard have attempted to simplify this as a one fits all value.
(This was also done in the Craps Games V2)
It does not in my opinion

Craps Buy Bet Payout

sure, here is my proof
B = Bet (NOT total $ given to the Dealer)
first example
The *PAYS* on a winning Hard 6
9 to 1
or
9*B to 1*B (divide both sides of *to* by B and get 9*1 to 1*1 or 9 to 1)
The *PAYS* on a winning Buy 4 vig paid up front (probably the most common found on this planet Earth)
pays 2*B duh
$ given to dealer = B + (B*.05) remember for this $20 Buy 4 fits all example
2*B to B + (B*.05)
now (B*.05) = B/20
(B*(5/100))
2*B to B + B/20
multiply each term by 20
2*B*20 to 20*B + (B/20)*20 =
40B to 20B +B =
40B to 21B
and
divide both side by B (see the first example)
40 to 21
so also
Craps

40/21 to 1
still this $20 fits all example
more work

Craps Lay Bets Payout

could be done on this to make the Wizard of Odds Buy Bets the LAST words on Buy bets :)
just my opinions
Sally

98Clubs

The problem I see here is that responses tend to 'Chain' the event. $21 on the 4 pays $40, the $1 is taken from the $21. The return is 60 for 21. When one loses this bet there are two outcomes;
A.) The entire $21 is forfeit (standard commission rule)
B.) The $20 bet is lost, with the $1 commission returned (Commission when you win)
When in outcome A the risk is $21 and the return is zero for $21.
When in outcome B the risk is $20 and the return is $1 for $21.

rudeboy99

This is how the 'buy behind' works on either the 6 or 8. The player tosses in a $25 chip or any multiples therein. The base dealer sets up a $24 be behind the number the player has chosen and places a 'lammer' on top of the bet that says 'LAY' and $1 goes to the house to pay the 'vig'. This way the 'sky' can ascertain the exact type of wager it is at a glance. If the shooter 7's out before the target number is rolled, the base dealer pays out $20 for every $24 bet and the payoff and the original $24 are returned to the player. So if you're going to buy behind or lay the 6 or 8 do it in units of $25.

Progress Publishing Co.

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From Chapter 2

Craps Buy Bet

*****************************************************************

In This Chapter

Craps Personnel
Flow of the Craps game
Dice totals and their frequencies, probabilities and odds
Craps Bets

**********************************************************

Buy Bets

The Buy bets are another way for a right bettor to cover the point numbers. These Craps bets can be made at any time. Buy bets can be pressed (increased), reduced or taken down (removed) at any moment prior to a roll. They work the same way the Place bets do, but the payoffs for the Buy bets are made at the correct odds. For that increase in the payoff ratio a player has to pay the house a 5% commission on the amount of his bet.

Suppose a player wants to make a $20 Buy bet on the number 6. A 5% commission, which is also called the “vig”, the “vigorish” or the “juice”, will be $20 x 5% = $1. A player places $21 on the layout and tells the dealer that he wants to buy a 6. A dealer collects $1 vig and puts $20 in an appropriately numbered box on the layout. He also puts a small “Buy” button atop the chips to distinguish them from the Come bets. If the 6 repeats before a 7 is thrown, a player is paid at correct odds of 6 to 5 – $24.

How big is the house advantage when a player makes the Buy bets? If the house did not charge a 5% commission, the Buy bets would be the even proposition bets without any advantage for the house or the player. Thus, if we’ll use our example above, all we’ll have to do to calculate the house advantage is to divide that $1 commission charge by the amount wagered, which is $21. The result is 4.76%. We can see now, that it is cheaper to buy a 4 or 10 than to place them, because the Place bets on a 4 or 10 carry a 6.67% advantage for the house. On the other hand, it is better to place a 5,6,8 or 9 than to buy them due to a smaller house edge on the Place bets for these numbers.

If you want to buy bets you have to make at least $20 bets. If your bet is only $10, than the 5% commission on that bet is equal 50 cents, but the house will charge you $1 anyway, because $1 chips are the smallest chips on the craps table. In this case, the house advantage against you will sharply increase to 9.09%.

The Buy bets are off on a come out roll, unless you instruct the dealer to make them work.